RE: [RedemptionByMethod] Re: Fw: Fred and Nina Gutierrez Seminar is SWEEPING …

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4/3/12 @ 43:40 … was that
you asking that question about “point of law”?


I love how they said “you
have to listen to all the calls starting with the very first one” and “you’re
missing some foundational knowledge”
that what you’re asking for?


What Nina says immediately after
that makes no sense at all.


Then Kelby takes over…
making no sense either. He doesn’t seem to know what he’s talking
about, but that doesn’t slow him down one bit. He keeps rattling on about
“reverse wire batch transfer EFT… blah blah blah” but he
fails to support his claim with any foundational information, not even a Fed
Res publication or UCC section.

Then he cuts you off to insult you
saying you need the education…
again, isn’t
that what you’re trying to get from them?


Kelby claims it works 100% every
single time, well, obviously it doesn’t.


And then another insult “from
what you’re saying is from a lack of knowledge”
don’t they get it? they aren’t providing the


And again @ 47:00 about “point
of authority”?


Whereby Kelby simply says “your
question has been asked and answered” and furthers that by suggesting you
can review the calls on their website which “completely explains the
point of authority”.
I have listened
to all of the calls and there is nothing remotely close to a ‘point of
authority’ regarding EFTs. Then he suggests opening Blacks Law 5th
Edition and look at “closed account”. Black’s Law Dictionary
in NOT an authority on anything, it’s a dictionary, it defines words,
terms and phrases.


Kelby goes on to accuse you of “structurally
setting up 250 other people into a position of failure” and claims
(without any verifiable proof) 115 Million! in discharged verified
Where’s the verification?


Kelby then disconnects and moves
on to ‘Omaha’ with his story of how he received a refund for
overpayment on his $15,000 truck.
SURPRISE. Nina is all excited about that, but where’s the proof? Where’s
the law, code, regulation, statute…?


Now why do you suppose Nina says
to sell it NOW? Maybe so he can get his ass as far away from that truck as he
can before someone comes looking for it?




David, if it’s worked for
you, then please share with us your verifiable knowledge regarding how “the
UCC supports it the second it leaves your house” (as Kelby claims) and
why banks must process the EFT.


If you don’t know the answer
to my (and the groups) inquiries, then just say so. If it worked for you and
you don’t know why, just say so.


My personal opinion at this point
is that Fred, Nina and Kelby are “selling” harmful information
regarding the use of EFTs. Those of us that actually research the laws, codes,
regulations and whatever else before we act are severely lacking the
information “claimed” by these three. So please, enlighten us so we
can put this to rest one way or the other.


Be warned, if you praise
Fred, Nina and Kelby’s EFT seminars again without verifiable supporting
you may find yourself on the outside looking in.




Sent from my
Tandy TRS-80


From: RedemptionByMethod@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:RedemptionByMethod@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of J5C9@aol.com
Sent: Tuesday, April 17, 2012 5:22 AM
To: RedemptionByMethod@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [RedemptionByMethod] Re: Fw: Fred and Nina Gutierrez
Seminar is SWEEPING …



David, we appreciate your enthusiasm. Perhaps you are new to the
group or just haven’t kept up with all the posts, but we have already done that
and been there. The joy ride is over now that every single EFT has come back to
bite us in the butt in one fashion or another. The FN&K EFT’s do not work
on their own. It is only through the follow up remedies that lead to court that
work. Now this does not mean the process is invalid but only that the PTB
(Powers That Be) do not want to recognize that they work and thus will do every
evil thing they can to beat you down. Thus, it is not as easy as you think
going into this.


As for Fred, Nina, and Kelby – their seminars have all the
preliminary makings something great, yet there is something missing on a grand
scale. This missing item is the foundational point of authority that
requires banks to honor your FN&K EFT written on a closed account. What makes
the bank accept a creditor’s reverse wire transfer based off of a zero balance
closed account? Sure, Black’s Law describes a closed account as remaining open
for set off but have you looked up the definition for set off? And no where
does it say anything about a bank.


The reason for skepticism (as you should always have regardless)
is because now I have 27 EFT’s I have to litigate for and the first thing I
need is this little thing called standing. The UCC will only work for me IF I
can first prove that the instrument I presented to the creditor was VALID to
begin with. Otherwise, all those codes and cases mean nothing.


FN&K are going around the country teaching this method and
have failed to disclose the fundamental principle behind the flagship of their
"ministry". I asked them point blank (as described in a post two
weeks ago) on their Tuesday night call. Their answer was nothing more than
a song and dance circular reference.


Furthermore, if they are receiving money for these seminars,
they should have all the research done and not require you to do it
for them. Why else would you pay someone for something you have to do yourself?







In a message dated 4/17/2012 1:07:40 A.M. Pacific Daylight Time,
david@crystaltemple.org writes:


wow! I feel it appropriate to remind you that any remedy to
eliminate your debt is going up against an almost impenetrable system that does
not even honor it’s own rules. They do as they please and thus any remedy valid
or not can be dismissed at any point. Did you think there was an easy method?
Maybe working for 5 years to pay the debt would be easier? I have met at least 10 people
personally that used Fred and Nina’s EFT with success. The process can work and
in my research seems to be easier, faster, and more likely to succeed than
other methods.
Please give these well meaning folk a break and don’t
talk about hanging them.


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